little gray concrete houses
I’ve just returned home with sore arms. I flew to Edinburgh on Sunday evening to attend a medical on Monday. I arrived at the medical centre Early in the morning and was greeted by a nurse. She took my blood pressure and some of my blood, tested my eyes, hearing and then jabbed me four times in the arm so as to protect me from various diseases. I was also drugs tested and tested in every other way imaginable. I then saw the doctor for another ENG 1. Apparently Chevron insist it is issued by that particular doc.
Next I was to demonstrate my overall fitness and coordination/dexterity. This involved about an hour of various exercises performed at different levels of exhaustion. Some of which seemed rather odd to me. One of the exercises involved moving baked bean cans around on a shelf just out of comfortable reach. Another had me threading nuts onto bolts once they had been passed through a link in some chain. I was also asked to crawl around on the floor, run up and down a step ladder, lift and carry heavy weights and rise and fall onto my knees unaided. Lastly I did a test which consisted of stepping on and off a 12inch high stair for 10 minutes at varying speeds whilst my pulse was read. After all this I was thoroughly tired and thankfully thoroughly finished.
I then took a train to Glasgow where I went to my companies office. I was given an introduction to the company and watched some DVD’s about safe practice and how wonderful Chevron are. They were full of words like “Dynamic” and “Proactive”. Thankfully they managed to avoid using the term “run it up the flag pole” but I suppose this is because of the industry they are involved in (could become a confusing term to use.) I was shown a leaflet entitled “The Chevron way”, this explained that Chevron and its employees are “nice” and “polite” and that the company is “honest” and (grrrrr) “proactive”. All of which I would have thought goes without saying, but nevertheless they have written it down in a lovely glossy leaflet. Once I had been learned how wonderful Chevron is I went to the airport and travelled back to London (through some rather strong winds).
I noticed that Scotland (the bit I saw) has lots of prisons and everyone seems to live in grey concrete houses. The countryside is beautiful though. Some of the houses looked like they had at one point been made from stone but have now been plastered and painted a sort of dirty grey colour. Very odd.
I received a call from Chevron this morning. They now want me to attend their Glasgow office again next week so as to meet someone who was not there yesterday so it looks as if I wont be joining ship for another week and a half or so.
posted by Rob @ 3:47 pm
39 comments
39 Comments:
That's interesting Rob, seems they are running you around quite a bit, and spending up big on you.
Thats a promising sign.
They never got me to do those things when I worked for them - but that was a long time ago.
I think you will find Chevron OK.
Put it this way, you could certainly have done a lot worse.
The Chevron Ships I sailed on were James E O'Brien and E. Hornsby Wasson. They were new at the time, both 212000dwt.
State of the art tonnage in those days,(1971).
Yer, I wish I'd stayed with them in some ways, but VLCC's were all that they had in their UK fleet. I felt I had to move on and gain further experience - product carriers, dry bulkers,chemical tankers, and combination carriers. That meant moving to a Management Company as at that time only they operated such diversified fleets.
As I look back, with some anger if not outrage, that was not a good move to make.
Those management companies, when they moved offshore, (1980's) suddenly became nothing more than an absolute disgrace in every aspect of their operations. They could "get away with murder" offshore - and took full advantage of it.
It is no wonder that shipping then earned itself such a horrendous reputation - they truly deserved it, - and more.
It became just a nightmare quite literally. Not so whilst they were Red Ensign though - they couldn't have got away with their negligence, neglect, abuse and deplorable standards - not Red Ensign, they could not.
You shouldn't have such problems with Chevron, it's an oil major, which at least, flies it's own colours if not it's own national flag. They cannot afford to be anything other than good at what they do,so I reckon you will do OK there.
Certainly, if you follow their procedures and adopt their methods of tanker operations - that will indeed be "world's best practice" - unless they have radically changed, which I doubt.
When you do fly out to your ship, be sure to buy a newspaper at the airport to read on the plane, but guard it closely, don't discard it, take it to your ship and present it to The Captain on joining. Up to date newspapers are like "gold" on a foreign going ship - much treasured by all, but the Captain should get "first shot".
Just imagine it, a new Cadet from Warsash, and an up to date newspaper -
well you will be a pleasant suprise.I'd have been excited - for sure.
Who knows, you may even be greeted with a "kiss & a cuddle" - metaphorically speaking -of course.
I've enjoyed following you blog immensely, It's a good one.
Cheers,
Shipmaster (Retired)
Hmm - I must say it is looking good so far.
One point though - those medical test findings with the Company Doctor.
They will be "confidential" of course, but they are your medical test results, no one else's.
I don't know what the freedom of information laws are in the UK and particularly in Scotland, as opposed to England.
If I were you, and knowing what I know now, I'd be looking at applying, through FOI, if necessary, to obtain copies of those medical findings - just for your own records - that is.
You just never know, when you will be glad that you did.
They are your records after all - they should not be held back from you.
You may not think it important - most would not, but I am not one of them.
It's not Chevron I'm worried about so much, as they provide good equipment, training and vocational education,it is your own records that are important to you, looking forward, perhaps more so, than anyone else.
Your Medical records are important to you - I suggest you get onto that line of thought - sooner rather than later.
What doctors may tell you to your face may be different to what they write down - especially if they are busy.
Wouldn't do any harm to follow through on that one - just in case.
They can, and indeed sometimes are, "ammended"
at some later date, by persons apparently unknown.
It is the sort of thing you should be wary of, particularly when or if working through "labour hire" companies.
Blackdog.
Ah Ha
FOI variations - Scotland v England.
Rings a bell in my head.
Maybe you should consider blackdogs suggestion.
Dr. Thomas
yes yes yes,
and what is more, if you were to apply for copies of your first ENG 1 results also, then you may well be suprised just how different the two ENG 1's may be.
You may then realise that the medical profession is not all that it sometimes professes to be.
In fact, sometimes their findings are absolute rubbish - at least, on paper.
Admin errors are not in the least unusual - thats just one example.
There are some "bent" doctors as well.
Surgeons are generally more reliable - but not always.
Your medical records are your medical records, and should at least be held jointly between you and the other party.
One day you may be glad of it.
Seafarers records tend to get lost, too widely distributed in some cases too. That's another disadvantage they suffer.
Too often everyone appears to have "Records" but the seafarer has nothing at all.
jerryn
"Moving those tins of beans around".
Well I reckon that shows you'll be able to "swing those valves" OK.
Seems the "ladder test" will ensure you can run up and down the pumproom ok although you won't be wired for pulse monitoring when you do it on board in 50 degree heat or more.
Shouldn't think many will really care what your pulse is doing either - that's the reality.
ptsm. 1st November 2006
Hi - Rob,
Looks like you are nearly there - well done.
SM (rtd)is right when he says you could have done worse - thats for sure.
As for the "flag pole" well you can be sure they won't have forgotten it - they'll be "thinking about it" - office staff always do generally because they have nothing better to do.
I note they are teaching you how to travel as well, thats something you have to get used to.
Even negotiating airports, railway stations and the like takes practice if you are to do it effectively. It can be quite stressfull sometimes - even more so these days.
Hope it turns out the way you envisaged, just remember those ongoing assessments - they apply equally to your personal affairs as they do to your job. I am here today, but do I really want to be here next year or the year after that. At 20 years of age you are already getting a bit on the old side - by that age I was completing my 4 year apprenticeship/cadetship
and had my 2nd Mates in my hand before I reached 21.
The older you get, the more difficult it becomes to change - so at least keep it under review.
However don't think there's much doubt you have what it takes - the ideal candidate - so it seems from reading your blog.
Best of luck !!
BSS Nov 1st 2006
Please Note:
I think what BSS means is that you are very highly trainable, and what is more very highly vocationally educationable.
As for your age, well I must say I prefered them a bit younger myself, but your age should not be a barrier as you clearly have the right sort of attitude - and a bit of the right sort of a sense of humour. That believe it or not - is absolutely essential - in my view.
I liked that bit about the flag pole and so should everyone - I think.
Capt. (Ret'd)
INDEED Capt (Ret'd) is right.
And a final piece of advice:-
You should ensure that your "relationships" with "office staff" are kept at "arms length" no matter how nice they may seem.
You have no idea of the damage they can do, nor of the depths of depravity they may be prepared to extend to, in order to acheive their objectives - which are not in your interest at all.
With them, keep it strictly professional - at all times.
Another Shipmaster (Retired)
"Once I had been learned"..........
should read:-
Once I had been taught,
or
Once I had learned
Grrr Rob
Watch your grammar as well !!!!!!
Seems U may be stressed out already.
Dorothy
LOL
never mind Rob
it's the same at school
teachers always nagging and whinging - they just don't know when to stop.
Boyscout
From a legal perspective:-
If it's not "Red Ensign" it's not "British Shipping"
You may have been misled -
Won't be the first time, nor indeed the last - I suspect.
sympathiser.
2nd November 2006.
Thank you Dorothy for pointing out my elementry mistake. I was aware of it, infact it was done on purpose. "I got learned", "someone learned me" etc etc. Tis a common frase rownd vese parts! I shall check and double check in future!
Thats just what I thought Rob.
I also thought you did it just to "trick" me - but I spotted it.
It was rather good of you really, I think, as with people like you my English learning is much improved.
It's very isolated and remote where I am - but this computer stuff sure helps - when you meet nice people on line.
Thank you - and it's "elementary" according to my dictionary.
And I think you mean,
"Phrase around these parts".
Hey man these computers is good !!!
Luv Dorothy
Huh - I don't know what all the fuss is about.
My teacher says that spellcheck is wrong on many occassions.
Typical yanks - perhaps if they could spell - then there might not be so much confusion.
Good blog Rob - Hope you are not about to get "done". Thats a common phrase round these parts.
Boyscout.
Hmm - this blog just seems to get better each day.
I am minded of one occassion when a plane load of ships staff reliefs took off Air Canada for Toronto.
It went down a "Bundle" for all those guys on the ship lying alongside in Toranto in Italy.
No happy faces that day - I can assure you, and the ship couldn't wait - it had to sail.
jerryn
Ah Yes and by the way, when you go back to the office in Glasgow to see that person who wasn't there last week, and if that person has by chance been reading your blog, then I would expect him/her to enquire just who it was that informed you that you would most likely be joining your first ship in Hawaii last week.
They must have known, or at least should have known that Chevron would require you to first visit their own doctor.
Misleading Crap like that is something everyone can do without.
Whoever it was, should perhaps at least be contemplating
"flag poles" at this time.
bss 4th November 2006
Hmm - well if that person has read this blog, they probably won't need to see you in Glasgow next week.
You have passed with ease - in all probability - I suggest.
An ideal candidate for recruitment by anyone - it seems to me.
At least from the cyber perspective.
Observer.
Yer - I agree.
And who knows, maybe Chevron will now consider appointing a Company Doctor near to Warsash.
"tinkerbelle"
Hit Counter:-
Let it be known that the hit counter has only been introduced on this the 6th Day of November 2006. The blog has been running for 4 months without it.
Boyscout.
Hey there Rob there's a message for you at deck-officer.com employment forum. It has just been posted by a-m-s-a.
I'm copying and pasting it here - so you don't miss it.
Here it is:-
Your last comment [b]Priestleyre[/b].
No - dont be put off by VOR.
The truth of the matter is - Your Route - would be the favoured route for any reputable ship operator wanting sea staff, be they manager or owner - and what is more - it has always been that way - and always will be unless ships become completely unmanned.
If you are "in" with Chevron - thats a pretty good foundation stone on which to build.
Ship Operations are Practical Operations - not theoretical ones.
Dorothy. 6/11/2006 (November)
One thing for sure - at the outset Chevron will be more interested in employing those who can and are willing and able to do the job - not those who just theorise and talk about it.
That I will all but guarantee.
You can always go for higher qualifications later on - if you want to.
Thats a US oil Major and one of the better ones at that.
Shipmaster Ret'd
Thats true.
But of course, you have to study the theory as well - you won't know what you are doing in practice if you don't.
You'll cope with that o.k. rob - I feel sure of that.
It's "all the talk" Chevron won't have much time for - they know what they are doing "In their world" - it's their business, it's what drives them, and they are not by any means unsuccessfull.
Good Luck "Sunshine".
Capt. (Ret'd)
Nothing more heard.
I wonder what happened to this one !!!!
9th November 2006
Oh Oh. I've just been going over this blog and see no reference to the MCA Lantern Sight Test - that's a must for a watchkeeping deck officer. I don't think the MCA will ever issue a certificate as a deck-officer without it.
Maybe that's where he is,- getting it done now.
Hope so, or maybe he has had it done, but forgot to mention it in the blog.
Capt Ret'd.
Nov 10th 2006
I don't believe I have had such a thing. However as far as I am aware my eyesight is perfect in every way.
I shall update the blog when there is something to update it with. Don't want it to turn into a "today I woke up, did some stuff and went to sleep" type of blog!
Rob
Eyesight - Lantern Test.
Talk to the MCA about that ASAP.
If you want to be a Deck Officer.
You may not need it as cadet - but as an officer you will. Get it done ASAP otherwise you could be wasting your time.
I am amazed - smells of cheap labour to me.
However it should present you no problem, but the spotted book - that's not the lantern test - you can pass the spotted book, but still fail the lantern test.
Get it done ASAP - thats my advice.
You don't want to find out when you go to the MCA Examination Centre in 3 years time.
If you don't have time now then ASAP.
Capt. (Ret'd) 10 Nov 2006.
According to the Mca website the lantern test is only conducted if the colour vision test in the ENG1 is failed. OR if the ENG1 is out of date when the seafarer comes to do his Oral exam.
Rob
How long does the ENG 1 last these days?
That Lantern test could put an abrupt stop to your career, its more difficult than the spotted book.
Oh dear - that would make me very worried indeed.
No wonder there is a shortage of officers and cadets.
I get the impression the whole bloody system is set up to facilitate cheap labour - that sounds like "British Shipping" alright.
I'd double check that, ask to have one done - that's what I'd do. If you cant pass it now, then you'll not pass it later on - more than likely.
Then they've got you by the short and curlies- a deck hand - no more.
Thats how I see it, but I suppose it all hinges on the validity of that ENG 1 - I expect they will have changed that as well.
No wonder ships collide as often as they do !!
Capt Retd 10 Nov 2006
It just beggars belief, What the hell is going on, and one must ask the question, How much influence have Cheap Labour Hirers had on MCA policy and who are they ensactly.
Will the next step be to do away with red and green sidelights - I doubt it - it would be much more convenient just to get rid of you, virtually at any time they like - when you've spent a fortune at doctors, uniform suppliers, colleges, book shops etc - the list goes on.
And that doesn't even include the toils of your labours, efforts, and other hardships you will experience.
I really am sorry for you, my heart bleeds for you, lets hope your colour vision is in fact sufficiently good enough to pass that lantern test, whenever they choose to say you must have it done.
What a waste of a life, come that day, or at least obvious potential for a wasted life.
Blackdog
No what is more likely, is they'll just change it again when you've been worked to the bone, your health in tatters - they are not nice people at all.
It's criminal, in my view.
Dr Thomas.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Another good move, all things considered.
Well done - Rob.
I see the advertisers have started to move in - a sure sign your blog is popular with some.
Just amazing - in fact.
Capt (Ret'd)
Nov 11 2006
What's happening ?
Well it seems to me that this guy is not only going to be a shipmasters
dream, but there's a distinct possibility that he may become a Ship Repairer's "delight".
Shipmaster (Ret'd)
Don't worry Rob, the following is just a "form of Insurance" - backed up on your blog.
peterpan
Joined: 24 Dec 2004
Posts: 356
Location: Pacific Region
Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 10:31 am Post subject: Oil Spill disaster - Pacific Adventurer -
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Seafarers, Shipowners, Ship Operators, Maritime Authorities and Underwriters of Maritime risk, are requested to consider whether the Nautical Institute is ultimately responsible for the captioned incident within a pristine Marine Park area.
To what degree has the Nautical Institute directly contributed to this disaster by publishing grossly erroneous information, both in text and diagramatic format in their publication titled The Management of Merchant Ship Stability, Trim and Strength, (ISBN 1 87 00 77 59 Published 2002.
Which of the following published errors, either jointly or severally, has contributed to the above captioned disaster.
The error/errors on page 17, 44, 50, 53, 64, 68, 73, 74, 81, 83, 86, 88, 90, 91, 92, 106 (1st error), 106 (2nd Error), 107, 108 (1st Error), 108 (2nd Error), 109 (1st Error), 109 (2nd Error), 127, 133, 140, 145, 155, 167, 168, 169, 184, 209, 214, 286, 288.
Will the recipients of this message do anything about ensuring the Publishers of this book advise prospective purchasers of all the foregoing errors in the text and diagrams, prior to extracting obscene sums of money for utter garbage.
Will the recipients of this posting write to their political representatives at all levels, to seek the removal of any Charity Status the Nautical Institute enjoys.
Will the legal representatives of those held liable, pursue this matter as appropriate and prosecute those responsible for publishing such rubbish, thereby polluting the minds of mariners and genuine maritime training and education establishments.
Will Maritime Authorites across the maritime spectrum order an immediate withdrawl of the mentioned publication from all the ships technical libraries under their jurisdiction.
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popeyethesailorman
Joined: 22 Dec 2004
Posts: 249
Location: S.E. Asia
Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 10:40 am Post subject:
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Perhaps equally as important,
Will the Premier of the State of Queensland, (Anna Bligh, direct descendant of ""Bligh of the Bounty"") and the leader of the State Opposition, (Lawrence Springborg) take note of the foregoing posting, and do something about it, - prior to the state election on 21st March 2009, - before there is another mutiny of the most undesireable kind.
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intrep11
Site Admin
Joined: 31 Oct 2002
Posts: 241
Location: UK
Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 9:50 am Post subject: Vested interest
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Ok firstly what a preposterous suggestion that anyone who wote a book is responsible for the consequences of an accident that happens years after its published
We have enough trouble without so called professional mariners like yourself proposing we all go down that road are you trying to get me seastaff locked up in prison ?
you are actually proposing we don’t need to be professional mariners because we can blame someone else for our faults ?
I don’t know the circumstances of the accident and have not seen the investigation report but perhaps you should bring those to the post rather than an your personal campaign against the NI
Your posting actually make me question again your professional status so before you go any further using this site to promote you own personal agenda. What exactly are you in shipping terms and why should we listen to anything you have to say
seems to me you are just bitter about a book - what did they refuse to publish your version or is it they wouldn’t let you be involved
come to think of it if there are so many errors which you claim are so critical what have you done about it in the years since it was published ?
On your crusade against the NI
I would like to know what exactly you stand to gain from damaging the only professional body this industry has that actually tries to represent seafarers what is your beef
As far as i can see they are one of the only organisations that have actually made a difference to seafarers in the last 20 years
Finally prehaps you should do some contineous profesional development because the book you are talkng about has now been republished in a second edition
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peterpan
Joined: 24 Dec 2004
Posts: 356
Location: Pacific Region
Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 12:55 pm Post subject:
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I agree with popeye
.Fortunately, thanks to on line protest by members on the shiptalk website a second edition was printed presumeably correcting all the major errors previously described, but in all probability including numerous others. Those errors were by no means minor, they were in fact of major significance - they were enormous, they were absolutely basic, and totally inexcuseable by any standard.
They did in fact render the first edition as fit for immediate disposal into the nearest garbage bin.
In marketing the book for sale, the N.I. painted it as some great revolution in stability text books, their description was indeed appealing.
On purchasing the book for 65.00 GBPounds plus 11.00 for postage (a tidy sum for a worthless product)
One waited in anticipation of great things about to arrive through the mail.
First impressions were good, until one actually started to read the content, digest the formulae, and study the diagrams. Then and only then did one realise they had been duped, conned, mislead, robbed – call it what you may.
On further scrutiny, the N.I. in it’s forward, disclaimed all liability for the content of the book, as did the author himself. They made no mention of that, in marketing the product – none whatsoever. Although the Nautical Institute published the book and marketed it, no purchaser was made aware that both the publisher and the author refused to accept any responsibility for it’s content. They were only too prepared to accept the cash though – Cash for a rubbish publication, its mathematical formula erroneous in the extreme, even the basic stuff, and the diagrams bore their share of fundamental flaws and gross errors.
Clearly the first edition was a scam of major proportion, and it is all too obvious now, that the UK has not only become a basket case in terms of Financial Institutions and Services, it seems now reasonable to assume it has become the centre of International Maritime Fraud and Corruption – in which the Nautical Institute is evidently deeply embroiled.
The relationship between the Nautical Institute, its publishers, its Authors, and the global Maritime Education and Training Establishments should be subjected to a detailed International Investigation , as it is clear that there is a real and significant threat of Maritime Fraud and conspiracy across the entire International Maritime Education and Training spectrum. Additionally, it should be of immense concern that the IMO appears to condone and accredit such practice.
Did they, for example, accredit the described publication, do they accredit the Nautical Institute as Publishers of Maritime Text - based on the book in question, they clearly should not.
In my view it’s become nothing more than a monumental globalised Marine Education SCAM.
If you are a student wishing to purchase text books, and you do not have money to burn, then refrain from purchasing anything from the Nautical Institute Publishers until you have examined the book closely, and discussed the matter with your college lecturers – and no one else. Books are expensive, and incredibly valuable if they are good ones, whilst bad ones, like the one in question, will only pervert your minds, even beyond redemption.
The first edition of the book described, is utter garbage – just rubbish, fit for the garbage bin only.
How many copies remain out there, continuing to inflict immense damage at this time.
Has the NI recalled them ? – I doubt it – they just could not give a damn, they got their money, and that's all they are concerned about.
Have they appologised ? Have they contacted all purchasers of the original edition and sent them a corrected version? In their second edition do they continue to refuse to accept responsibility for what they are publishing, and are they advising the world of that fact, before making that grab for the cash. Is the second edition any better than the first ?
To find out, you would of course have to purchase again - maybe that was their intention all along. That being the case it is FRAUD, and unmistakeably so.
When considering Maritime Texts – Brown Son & Ferguson are long, long established as the Premier Publishers of Maritime Books, as is the Cornell Maritime Press on the other side of the Atlantic. They, at least, do not publish rubbish and general garbage.
Another source of maritime publications which you can be reasonably sure is o.k. would be The Marine Society, (a genuine, worthwhile and authentic Charity), and the Seafarers Education Service. They won’t sell you rubbish which is only fit for the bin.
The Nautical Institute on the other hand will clearly publish anything, and sell anything – for cash.
That indicates they have no morals nor ethics at all.
Why no one has referred the foregoing matter to Crimestoppers International, should be a matter of concern, not only to seafarers but to international community in general.
In the years since the book was first published, there have, particularly in third world countries, been numerous cases of immense loss of life when passenger ferries have capsized through inadequate or erroneous stability determinations. One would have to wonder in how many cases was the book in question used as the principle reference material for stability determination and calculation, particulary of the dynamic kind.. The errors therein contained would therefore largely explain, in the simplest of terms, why such tragic losses have occurred. Those errors are fundamendal errors, they are errors in the simplest of basics. They would also explain why the motion of a vessel in severe weather, "Mysteriously" start loosing containers over the side.
One simple example, from page 50 – The author/publisher states, (in bold lettering within a conspicuous highlighted box) that GZ @ a particular angle of heel = KN @ that particular angle of heel , multiplied by, KG sin angle of heel. That statement is rubbish, it is Dangerous, and one must ask how many lives have been lost as a direct result of some third world deck officer accepting that statement – after all, why should he not – it has come directly from the nautical institute, and that third world officer may have already spent the equivalent of perhaps two months salary to purchase a book from which he believes he can better himself. However in so doing he may in fact, through the negligence of the Nautical Institute, turned himself into a mass murderer.
To further compound the matter, one should now ask, how many computer software programmes have already been fed the poison of the formula outlined above, along with the many others, and what will be the consequences looking forward. Indeed one should ask, has it been intentional on the part of the Nautical Institute, probably not, but the possibilty should not be disregarded. One can’t rule the possibility out, at least not this day and age.
It is perhaps time to reflect on the gravity of the situation, and to clearly recognise the direct and highly significant role the Nautical Institute has played in the process of Criminalising and encouraging the Criminalisation of merchant seafarers, and to further consider the increasing perception of the development of a Global Maritime Mafia, within the City of London, centered at 202, Lambeth Road, London SE1 7lQ. IT's all about Cash - First and Foremost, everything else is secondary - and they do not seem to give a damn, how they obtain it.
Perhaps of even greater alarm,members should note that despite the basic errors in mathematical formula, the highly dangerous errors in mathematical formula, the same book, in its first edition, was actually commended by no less than Captain P.S. Barve, Ex C MNI Coordinator, TEFS BITS Distance Learning Centre Mumbai, & Examiner of Masters and Mates. That fact alone should send enormous shockwaves across the entire maritime world, and should have resulted in sacking by the Indian Minister Responsible. It certainly does their Maritime Reputation no good whatsoever, it reduces them to the level of the worlds major producer and marketer of bogus pharmaceutical products - with similar indeed more severe consequences for humanity.
HOW many First Editions are still out there, and who the hell in their right mind would purchase another one, only to be advised on receipt, that no one accepts responsibility for what they are writing and publishing. They do however accept the Cash, No Problem there, and that, in my view is non other than a henious criminal act.
Nautical Institute be damned - it has degenerated into nothing other than Globalised TRASH.
PS :- Quite apart from that mentioned above, the author of the book cannot even differentiate the difference between a sine and a tangent. It is outrageous, or maybe it's the publisher who can't.
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eilidh_s
Joined: 09 Jun 2005
Posts: 34
Location: in college
Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 4:11 am Post subject:
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Peterpan, how do you know they were using this particular book onboard? Could it have been Derretts Ship Stability for Mates and Masters perhaps, or Pursey's Merchant Ship Stability? Is there a stability computer onboard that could have in fact had an error in the program that could have caused the error, or could in fact the officer in charge of the stability have been incompetant? I haven't read this book but from the previous comments it would appear that anybody with a knowledge of stability would have noticed any errors.
I agree it is shocking that a book with so many errors should have been published, but can we seriously blame the disaster on one book? It does seem like a bit of a personal vendetta against the NI is going on here.
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peterpan
Joined: 24 Dec 2004
Posts: 356
Location: Pacific Region
Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 3:47 pm Post subject:
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We do not know if this particular book was used on board, at least not at this time.
We do not know whether some unsuspecting officer has been using this book either.
However there is sufficient ground to closely look at the possibility.
Have any of the outrageous errors been fed into the ships computers at some time, or perhaps to personal computers, or indeed into standard old fashioned hard copy stability calculation forms usually compiled on board.
( You know, the good old 100% reliable paper type - on which you use a 100% reliable pencil or pen)
The object of these postings is to try to ensure these matters are fully investigated by all the appropriate authorities.
Back in the 1970's a tragic incident occurred, when an Air New Zealand DC 10 with hundreds of passengers on board, flew into the side of Mount Eribus on the Antartic Sub Continent. No one survived.
The ultimate cause of that accident was that the Air NZ master planning computer in the flight planning department was fed innaccurate and apparently unchecked (and not double or treble verified) information which in turn was transfered to the aircrafts navigational computer.
At the very least it was an enourmous failing of a management system, in fact, it seems Air New Zealand had no management system or procedures in place at that time. I don't suggest it was the first such incident of it's kind, and I am sure it will not be the last.
Is it any coincidence, that a particular individual involved in that flight planning department, "left" Air New Zealand after the accident and in his CV cited the reason for leaving as "having acheived his objectives", without clearly explaining what those objectives were. Is it also a coincidence that the same individual is now, or has recently been holding a Senior Position at 202 Lambeth Road, and apparently loves "playing with computers", trumpeting their use with gay abandon. If so it seems little has been learned in respect of due diligence, care and attention. The effect of the neglect of these things is frequently catastrophic.
It seems to me there is a high probability that books are published by computers these days - I don't know tho, - I'm not a computer fanatic at all, in fact I no longer own own one - perhaps you will understand why.
In investigating the causes of these and like incidents, you just cannot probe too deeply.
Too often however, they are the subject of inquiries, where the relevant departments all internally investigate themselves, and as a result, the real causes are never determined, the authorities awarding themselves with the inevitable pat on the back, whilst the poor old Captain is accused of being drunk, or some other grossly erroneous claim. It's easy with Merchant Seafarers - they don't count do they - out of sight - out of mind, they'll soon be "lost" back at sea again - who cares.
There are few votes in seafarers, and ISPS just makes matters a thousand times worse - investigators (other than those of the "approved" variety) can no longer get near them, in such cases at such times.
At least that's the impression I get.
I very much doubt if it was Derrets Stabilty they were using nor Purseys - those books are mariners bibles after all - been around a long time, - everyone should have them. Pure Magic - so they are.
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popeyethesailorman
Joined: 22 Dec 2004
Posts: 249
Location: S.E. Asia
Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 10:25 am Post subject:
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Well at least the clean up appears to be proceeding as well as can be expected under the circumstances. A few glitches perhaps, but none of any real significance so far.
Although by no means a MAJOR Spill, in relative terms, the damage is and will be enormous to sensitive ecological pristine marine park area.
The Lord Mayor of Brisbane is doing his nut, calling for a Royal Commission into the incident alledging cover up and negligence and incompetence on behalf of the appropriate authorities. It is in my view not a Royal Commision that will yield the best outcome, but rather an major investigation at the United Nations into the performance of the IMO and the other matters described in the foregoing postings.
31 containers containing ammonia nitrate, lost overboard, and in the process small two holes punctured in the hull, above the or close to the waterline in the midships area.
I ask you, what the hell was this vessel doing carrying heavy oil in what should obviously be designated ballast tanks.
I suspect we all have a pretty good idea, & indeed were those tanks designated Fuel Oil tanks when the vessel was built.
If so, something is seriously wrong.
I don't know the age of the vessel, but she doesn't look too old to me.
I'm only going on the pictures I see on the telly, but they say it all, or at least all that is needed to be known.
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peterpan
Joined: 24 Dec 2004
Posts: 356
Location: Pacific Region
Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 4:02 pm Post subject:
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Well you're not wrong there either popeye, its a monumental disgrace the whole bloody lot of it. A Systematic MONSTER right out of control.
I note there appears to have been a media blackout today on the progress of the clean up - the day before the State Election. (Now thought to be about 200 tons HO Spilled)
The people of Queensland are outraged, so much so, that it is feared the incident will bring down a majority government tomorrow - and, it seems, more than likely because of those incompetents at 202, Lambeth Road, with the assistance of the IMO, (or lack of it.)
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intrep11
Site Admin
Joined: 31 Oct 2002
Posts: 241
Location: UK
Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 5:04 am Post subject: ok this has to end
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Ok this slander that you are writing has to end
unless you can prove what you are saying
which so far you have completely failed to do
frankly both the IMO and the NI would be within their right to demand that this is all removed
if you cannot control yourself i will have no option than to terminate this thread
It does not matter how upset you are you simply cannot throw blaim around with no proof you are behaving very unprofessionally and it is totally out of character
please stop it
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peterpan
Joined: 24 Dec 2004
Posts: 356
Location: Pacific Region
Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 9:01 am Post subject: URGENT POSTING.
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The “Media Blackout” in relation to clean up is cracking.
Late last night it leaked a bit, one media station reporting problems on the beaches of Moreton Island.
Apparently the oil on the sand has penetrated much further than originally estimated over tens of Kilometers and it seems there just aren’t enough plastic bags to go round.
Another station reports there are major concerns that the shipowners do not have enough insurance to cover the clean up costs. Talk about stating the obvious, who would doubt that probability, considering the state of the A.I.G. re-insurers in America. (Arrogance, Incompetence & Greed – as the US Senate describes them). As for the P&I clubs, well I reckon their “executives” will be “hitting the bottle” right now.
However, in addition to the guys with the plastic bags and the shovels, the bulldozers, graders and dump trucks are working round the clock now, but there no signs of them having reached the bedrock just yet.
The workers, in true Australia fashion, appear to be being well cared for, with fleets of buses ferrying them along the long sandy beaches to strategically placed barbeque stations, positioned above the high water mark, thus ensuring they can enjoy a few prawns, sausages, lamb cutlets and steaks, washed down with suitable refreshments, at regular intervals in the heat of the tropical sun.
Another problem arises today, The Polling Stations are open. This means that as voting is compulsory, the workers will have to somehow be ferried back to the polling stations on the mainland, the returned to the Island after casting their votes, unless of course the State Electoral Commission has managed to set up an emergency polling station on the Island.
It just goes to show, nothing is as simple as it may seem. The logistics of the clean up alone, are enormous.
What the results of the election will show remains to be seen. As it stands the Anna Bligh government has for long held an enormous majority, holding 63 seats as opposed to the LNP oppositions 21 seats, with 5 independents making up the total. Current polling today suggests an enormous swing to the opposition with the margin now neck and neck at 50/50. That swing, if realised, is enormous., and one must ask the question, what responsibility do those “Fruit Cakes” at 202 Lambeth Road shoulder, as a result of the garbage they publish.
The State Government of Queensland have not only impounded the vessel responsible, they have impounded the Shipmasters Passport as well. One should, I believe, not read too much into that at this time, as they no doubt realise that this Captains life, and that of his family are in grave danger should he return home prior to adequate precautions being taken. Indeed they may have to afford him refugee status, and to his family as well. I would not mind betting that his family at home are already receiving death threats over the phone.
I am of the opinion, based on personal experience, that it does not stop there. What of the Shipmaster in command before the current Captain took over (whenever that was). That Captain will no doubt be on leave, and I fully anticipate that he and his family also are receiving death threats by phone at this time. It happened to me, so I see no reason to think it is not happening to them. It is all a part of how Ship Managers Operate, although I do not know if a Ship Management Company is involved in this instance.
It is for this reason I would give everyone the following apparently absurd advice:- If you are engaged on a vessel operated by a Ship Management Company, then never ever give that Management Company your name, your address nor your telephone number. They are likely to use it to launch an attack on their client the shipowner. They won’t spill the beans directly, but rather, they will leak that info to the media and to those radical fanatical environmental extremists which exist, and that’s when the phone calls start coming in – even though you were not on the vessel at the time and had no involvement whatsoever. – You are on leave, and have been for months (perhaps) - as it was in my case. That does not matter however, so far as the fanatics are concerned, it is sufficient that your name has been associated with the vessel at some time in the past – that’s all. Once those death threats start coming in, your life is ruined for ever, and you can no longer live in your home. Same goes for any family you may have.
That’s seafaring – in Ship management Companies at any rate. They are pure evil – there is no other way to describe them.
As previously intimated, this posting may seem absurd, it is nevertheless quite factual – and it is because of the absurdity of it, that the Managers get away with it.
You don’t have to believe it of course, indeed I would not blame you at all, it’s up to you I suppose. However if it was not factual, I would not post it at all – why should I bother, or even care about you guys, you just get abused for it, or so it seems. Take it or leave it, it makes no difference to me.
Hopefully the Queensland/Australian Authorities have realised the foregoing, and have impounded the Captains Passport for the right reasons, not the wrong ones. If they have, then I assume they will have, through Crimestoppers International, already started eves-dropping on the Captains home telephone service, and also on that of the Captain before him, and maybe even the one before that.
Life really is full of Crap, so it is, – the type that destroys the most innocent, the most conscientious and diligent of all, at least, as far as it is humanly possible.
More "Back up" Rob:-
says Capt (Ret'd)
Copied and Pasted.
popeyethesailorman
Joined: 22 Dec 2004
Posts: 250
Location: S.E. Asia
Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 12:04 pm Post subject:
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Well the election is over, and the government managed to survive - quite handsomely in fact, all be it with a reduced majority. History was made in as much as Anna Bligh was the first female premier in Australian history to be elected in her own right. A remarkable performance by any standard. (Bligh of the Bounty would be proud, were he still with us today.)
The electoral commission did get its act together, rushing a mobile ballot station out to the island, which I understand was set up next to one of those barbecue stations. The workers were then transported to that location, to cast their votes, be suitably refreshed, prior to being returned to the job.
By coincidence, it was the first polling booth in the State “to declare”, going to, not suprisingly, Anna Bligh, the incumbent ALP Premier of the State. It just goes to show what happens when you look after the workers, as previously advised in this string. Just add a "barbie", a sausage, and a few cold drinks, and “Bobs your Uncle” – no problem at all – it is Australia after all.
The new State Parliament will be made up of 50 seats to Labour, 31 or 32 seats to the New LNP (not finalised- - real cliff hangers - awaiting postal votes ) and 4 independents, I think.
The opposition would have done better had the Leader not "blown it" by playing politics with the oil spill, in the final day of the campaign. People did not like that.
It appears, he opened his mouth on a maritime matter, without the benefit of prudent maritime advice. On the other hand, the better informed incumbent premier, saw her opportunity, made the most of it, and steam rolled right over the top of him. Oh Boy, and did she not do it in style – he was trashed – I don’t think he knew what hit him. The Lady was so right, on that occasion, but that’s just my opinion, for sure. God was she impressive – she landed a devastating blow – all in a jiffy – just like that.
The two parties were neck and neck just prior to the election – but that blunder by the opposition leader was devastating – she (Anna)virtually “ate him alive”.
A pity perhaps, as the Leader of the Opposition had worked hard against much opposition, to form the new Liberal National Party from the dregs of the Liberal / National Coalition , in chaos since 1987, when the Fitzgerald Royal Commission into Corruption, brought the National Government of the day to it’s knees, the Premier into the Courts, and placed various Ministers into Jail.
Now at least, Queensland has the makings of a credible opposition once again – which can only be good for democracy.
Clearly they are of good stock, those “Blighs”, (Bligh of the Bounty, will certainly be happy today.)
Already she’s dispensed with many of her former ministers with whom she was lumbered, when her predecessor abruptly resigned.
Change is on it’s way, - we can count on Anna – she says. I sure hope that applies to the beaches, and the restoration of cabotage, on the coast.
The clean up continues, but will go on for an already extended period of time (along at least 60 kilometers of sand). This was a relatively small spill – just 200 /250 tons HFO.
The shipowners have cooperated by flying in some “specialist” heavy sand skimming equipment from DUBAI, which went into action yesterday, at least for a short period of time. A “beach clean up coordinator” advised the media it was not as good as expected, as when the sand got wet with some rain, it failed to do the job it was supposed to. That being the case, I hate to think what will happen when the tide comes in. I suppose they’ll just fly it back to DUBAI.
The Royal Australian Navy are on the scene with two specialist vessels searching for the 31 containers containing 600 tons of ammonium nitrate. They have been fairly successful, locating some of them along a 16 mile corridor at 100 or so meters in depth. They haven’t decided what to do with them yet, but that’s of little significance at this time, as they can’t do anything until suitable sea conditions return to the area – whenever that may be.
“For the benefit of the tape” (and Eileidh S.), who does not have a copy of the First Edition of the book in question, I ask the following question :-
Why don’t you go out and purchase a copy. It should not now be difficult amongst the millions of Second Hand Bookshops scattered across the Globe, (not to mention jumble sale stalls and the like) and see it all for yourself.
However I warn you that in so doing you will, in effect :- (1.) Be wasteing .your hard earned money. (2.) Be running the risk of contracting some deadly “disease” of the intellect, perhaps potentially fatal in the final analysis. I wonder how you might feel, should such a hypothesis eventuate. Where does it end ?
You might also take time to consider how much more serious this oil spill might have been had it resulted from a collision through a lack of knowledge & understanding of the Colregs. It would appear some attitudes to learning them properly are somewhat less than desireable – but that’s just the impression I get from some previous postings on this site.
23 03 09.
( 2nd last word: substitute the for this.)
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